Mishlove: Welcome back to Virtual U. I’m your host, Jeffrey Mishlove, and my guest Stephan Schwartz is author of The Alexandria Project and The Secret Vaults of Time. We’ve been talking about Stephan’s work in remote viewing, as well as his thoughts about how these abilities can be learned. Now, I’d like to take the last of our time together to turn to another area of the research conducted by Stephan while he was the Research Director of Mobius. I’d like to discuss some research you carried out in healing. To begin with, why did you get interested in this area of research.

Schwartz: To my mind, all health professionals ought to be trained in the importance of therapeutic intent, and some technique to make it operational. But that would require some objective way of seeing whether they actually could do it. I wanted to see whether it was possible to develop some kind of object measurement about the power of an individual healer that wasn’t vulnerable to charges that it was just the power of suggestion, or any one of a hundred other explanations. I decided to measure changes in water. No placebo effect explanation would be possible.

We had people do the healing while they had little bottles of sealed water, very pure water, on the palms of their hands. We put those little bottles in a cloth tube and tied it around the palms of their hands. We found several things that we had not expected. One was that healers tell you they’re healing all the time but, in fact, it appears to be a kind of pulse phenomena, like mzany other things that happen with human beings. That is, there’s a build up, there’s a discharge, and then a relaxation. We had three little bottles: a five minute bottle, a ten minute bottle, and a fifteen minute bottle. We thought that the fifteen minute bottle would be more strongly affected than the five minute bottle. But that did not turn out to be true.

We had two groups of healers. One group was very skilled at it and if you talked to them they would define themselves as healers. Another group of healers had never done it at all. What we found out was that each of the groups was independently effective but that the people who were trained in it did better than the people who were naive, who’d never done it before. I think what that tells us is this is a normal human ability, but that developing a discipline to put the ability to work makes you more effective, in the same way that we’re born with musical ability but training to learn an instrument makes us better able to play it. Put simply, what we find is that everybody has the capacity to heal.

I think it’s very interesting in the Bible there’s a passage where it says that Jesus went back to his home village and he was unable to do any miracles except healing because of the negative feelings of the people in the village. So I think what that story is telling us is that even individuals of transcendental ability can be blocked from many of their abilities to express things but, even in the most negative circumstances, we can always heal. That has profound implications that extend far beyond what we normally think of as healing.

When you realize that the consciousness with which you interact with people, just your feelings, your "beingness" as Gandhi called it, has an effect on the well being of everyone around you, it suggests what health care in America might look like. Imagine hospitals where everyone had the realization that their presence and touch mattered. How many billions of dollars would be saved in such a system? We know from studies that people who receive healing have less pain, less complications, require fewer prescriptions. Imagine if every patient in America who went into the hospital had only one less prescription as a result of receiving healing energy from the people who treated him or her. Just that one prescription would amount to billions of dollars. Such training would allow us to pay for all sorts of things that the health care that we now have can’t afford.

We also know that in certain circumstances these abilities can produce profound physical change. Even in our study one healer apparently dissolved a kidney stone. But the most moving thing I saw wasn’t that, as extraordinary as that was.

A man who had never done healing before, a film producer, volunteered to be one of our naïve healers. He had grown up in a fundamentalist Christian background and was profoundly homophobic. He had all kinds of judgements about this. Just in the luck of the draw, the way the computer assigned the healers and the recipients, he was assigned a homosexual with AIDS. and it was very difficult. Given the strength of his feelings, and his fears, we felt ethically we had to tell him -- although the plan had been to not tell the healers anything about the condition of the recipients. It was very difficult, but he finally decided that he would go ahead with the healing.

We had asked all the healing recipients to describe their conditions. The AIDS patient had been a dancer, but his illness included a particularly nasty kind of arthritis which made that impossible and caused his joints freeze up if he sat very long. The worst thing for him though, he said, was that he was constantly cold, as a result of circulatory problems brought on by his disease. When he went into the treatment room he could hardly get up on the table.

The healer went into the room and we could later see on the videotape he was visibly struggling with himself. But he overcame his fears and entered into the healing process. As time went on the interaction between the two men became more and more intense. By the time it was over both were openly crying.

The dancer got off the table and easily walked across the room. Then he stopped and looked down at this feet, and did a little dance step. And he was warm.

He died about six months later from other complications. And he said his arthritis was never again as bad, and that he was warm. It meant so much to him. I was very moved. It taught me a lot about what healing means.

. The effect it had on the healer was just as profound. It liberated him to see homosexuals as people worthy of love. I think what we find in healing is not only do we heal others, but we also heal ourselves.

Mishlove: Researchers today refer to the process as one of holding a healing intention.

Schwartz: The whole issue of intention is one of the most critical aspects in our research.. Parapsychology, I think to most people, seems very dry and abstract and very difficult to get around. It’s hard to understand it in terms like signal-to-noise ratio, it’s all very difficult stuff. But when you realize that what you’re dealing with is the intention with which you carry out the acts of your life. You know, a reporter from the Times of India went to Gandhi just before he was assassinated and the reporter said to him, "Gandhi, how did you do this? You were never a public figure in the sense of having a governmental post. You were never a wealthy man. How did you do this?" And Gandhi said, "It wasn’t what I did, it wasn’t what I said, it was beingness that made the difference."

Mishlove: That’s a wonderful point to conclude this segment on: beingness. We’ll come back with Stephan Schwartz after these messages from WisdomRadio.

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Mishlove: Welcome back once again to Virtual U. My guest is Stephan Schwartz, author of The Secret Vaults of Time and The Alexandria Project, founder of the Mobius Group, and one of the world’s leading authorities in the field of the applied applications of psychic phenomenon. Stephan, we’ve covered a lot of ground in the past two hours and at the conclusion of the last segment you began to get into what I think is your own personal philosophy of life. Maybe that would be a good note to devote our final eight minute segment to now because with a career like yours, you’ve done healing research, you’ve done archeology in Egypt with psychics, at some point I imagine you begin to ask yourself, "What is it all for? What does it mean? Why am I doing these things? How do they contribute to humanity?"

Schwartz: Well, you do. I got into this because I was interested in exploring who are we and why are we here? What I’ve come away with is that I think the evidence suggests to us, I don’t say that it proves it, but I would say it suggests it to us very strongly. It is as if we were all work stations on the cosmic Internet. I think the Internet is a good metaphor in that we both inform it and we are informed by it. This idea that all life is connected: what does it really mean and what does that take us to? When you think about the fact that intention creates beingness, and that beingness creates effects that touch everyone with whom you come in contact, it changes your point of view. You realize you don’t need to not have a powerful public position, or be a public figure, or maybe you’ve never done anything that the world has accorded a lot of attention to but, nonetheless, you have the capacity to affect enormous change.

I’ve been doing research recently in this area and one of the things that strikes me is if you look at the people who have caused enormous change in the world, an extraordinarily large number of them begin without wealth, family, connections, or superior education. Look at the people who win the Nobel Peace Prize. The women, for instance, in 1976 who won were two Irish housewives who just got tired of the way things were and said, "We can change it."

What I’ve come away with after thirty years of research is that we have the ability to change. We have the ability to change ourselves and we have the ability to change the conditions of our society. And we are doing that all the time, whether we know it or not. Because we are all connected, all life is connected. It has changed my entire perspective about how you look at the planet. When I go into the woods, for instance, I don’t see myself as disassociated from it. I recognize that at some level every tree, every green plant, every animal, insect or bird is a life form and I am a life form, and we are connected.

Mishlove: In other words, the applied parapsychology work in which you were engaged so successfully in the application of clairvoyance, to archeology, to criminology work, to healing work, to predicting financials, which is an area we didn’t even get into yet, these things are all quite significant and they make a difference in the world but the implications seem to be even more deeply profound than the applications.

Schwartz: Yes, much more profound. Whether you do applied parapsychology or not you are still doing applied beingness. Every day you get up you have choices that you make all through the day. If you want to know where your spiritual specific gravity is, just think about the way you reacted that last time somebody cut you off on the freeway. That little instant between stimulus and response will give you a real sense of sort of where your balance is. I don’t think we recognize how tremendously powerful we are as individuals. I mean, the reason democracy is powerful is that it is about individuals collectively working to achieve a state of beingness. It is a mystical form of government in a sense. And we are all beings contributing to the state of the world we have today. It’s built up by thousands and thousands of little choices we make. I used to say years ago that government scandals really were the collective manifestation of all the pencils people stole from the office. All those little choices that you make of, "Well I can let this slide," or "Nobody will ever find out about this," or "This really won’t make any difference." Perhaps at a physical level it doesn’t but at a deeper level, it may make a lot of difference. What is my intention, and what choices am I making to manifest that intention? And the answers that you give yourself to those questions will tell you a great deal about who you are and what you’re about.

Mishlove: The research in parapsychology suggests that we really need to be paying attention to our very thoughts.

Schwartz: That’s right. Our thoughts, our feelings, the kind of energy that we have within us. You know you can change a person’s life by the simplest of acts. If you think about the people who have come into your own life, maybe you never saw them again, but they came into your life, they gave you something that you needed, and then they went on. The Buddhists say when the student is ready, the teacher appears. I think that that’s very accute. We are always being unexpected angels for each other.

Mishlove: Well, it has been a real blessing to have you here on short notice on Virtual U. You’ve been quite an angel for me and for our listening audience, Stephan, and it’s been a pleasurable and enlightening experience.

Schwartz: Well, it’s always a pleasure to talk to you, Jeffrey. You’ve done extraordinary work over the years yourself. Your television program, Thinking Aloud, and now this radio program. If you want to get the best overall compendium on the whole consciousness research field, you can’t beat Jeffrey’s Roots of Consciousness. It’s been a pleasure to have been on your program.

Mishlove: Thanks for being with me. We’ll be back to wind up our hour with Stephan Schwartz in just a couple of minutes after these messages from WisdomRadio. I’m Jeffrey Mishlove, host of Virtual U.

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For a copy of today’s program or information about guests including available books and tapes, call 1-888-WISDOM9. E-mail questions and comments to info@wisdomradio.com. This program is a production of WisdomChannel LLC, copywright 1999, all rights reserved. Now back to Virtual U with Jeffrey Mishlove.

Mishlove: The music that you’re listening to now was composed by Gary Tucasian and produced for Virtual U by Lars Spivok. If you’ve enjoyed our program today with Stephan Schwartz, let me invite you to log onto my website: www.mishlove.com. That’s my name and it’s spelled just the way it sounds: m-i-s-h-l-o-v-e. From there you can link to the websites of all of our guests, past, present and future. You can also link to many, many organizations in the field of parapsychology, organizations that Stephan Schwartz and I have been affiliated with over the years. There are many wonderful and informative websites in this area and I encourage you to take advantage of those resources to delve more deeply into this most exciting of all sciences. Stephan, we have just a minute but I wonder if you have a final thought to share with our listeners.

Schwartz: Well, I think my final thought is this. If you go to the movies,/ or listen to the news, you see a world that looks very bleak and very depressed and very mechanical. And I don’t think that’s the way it’s going to work out at all. The research I and others in many different fields have been doing, to me, suggests we are rapidly approaching a world where we recognize a measure of interdependence that was never acknowledged before. That you have the power not only to change your life but to change the world. And the choice is really yours. It is all about what you choose to do, wherever you are in your life, whatever your role in society. When you wake up tomorrow morning, make your choice a helpful, harmonious one.

Mishlove: What a hopeful message. Stephan, thank you again.